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More details; Some theoretical cosmologyFrom: Steven
Subject: Philosophy
Date/Time 2010-03-18 20:30:00
Remote IP: 76.247.152.202
Message>>>My view was we realize we are not a thought,
>>>we are not a memory, we are not only our emotions,
>>>they are and will always be part of our life, but
>>>they are not the most important aspect of us, there
>>>is another aspect that many of us do not have a good
>>>relationship with, not allowing it to be our natural
>>>expression in life. Cultivation allows one to connect
>>>to this and live from this space. I think there are
>>>many ways to cultivate to access or attune to this aspect of our life.
>>>This aspect of our life is an approach to living life,
>>>its not a fixed thing. Its a way to live in a changing world.
I agree.
But assuming you live from this free and joyful space, why not
do other things that may cause more aspects connected with you
to continue along with you after physical death. Why limit
yourself to just your core essence? I mean, you are alive; you may
as well do something while you are here. Right? If you want
to just consider it child's play, OK fine, I'll accept that.
But I'm still going to play ;)
>>>Zen never mentions immortality, this dynamic is dual, not part of Chan.
Well, that depends on what you mean by Zen.
If you mean Zen as in Zen Buddhism, it sure does.
Buddhists believe in reincarnation and that the core part of you
continues from life to life even as you shed your memories, etc.
Moreover, I believe you personally expressed your belief in the
idea that we are already immortal, that we just haven't realized it
yet (personal conversations, outside this particular discussion).
Now this may be a completely separate belief from whatever
you are calling Zen, and if that's the case, OK fine. You can
give whatever name you like to whatever I called "Option A", if you
want to keep that separate from the Zen concept. The name doesn't
matter really, so long as you understand my cosmological view.
>>>Alchemical Daoist argument (c.f. M. Winn) argues you are NOT,
>>>and you need to integrate sufficiently through practices
>>>to maintain your current condition lest you fizzle away at death.
>>>****************************
>>>I don't fully agree, they argue how you cultivate now
>>>influences what you become in the after life.
I was being overly brief.
Obviously your current condition is going to change drastically
when you die, and everything changes being subject to the Dao.
Please see my prior posts for the detailed model.
>>>For me there is not a win or loose dynamic,
>>>can we transcend this model?
>>>I am not personally interesting in winning,
>>>just living a natural life, whatever that brings I will deal with.
Come on. Don't pick apart my language, bagua.
You know that wasn't the intended meaning in those words.
I using metaphor to prove a point; don't take it literally.
Otherwise, you are just building up a straw man argument.
My point when I said "you win" is along the lines of "it can't hurt".
You end up taking care of "Option A" and "Option B" simultaneously.
If anything, it's being efficient, LOL.
I mean, there are plenty of hours in the day;
you've got time to do multiple things accounting for multiple
possibilities. That's my point.
Thanks for the playful exchange,
Steven
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