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More details; Some theoretical cosmologyFrom: Steven
Subject: Philosophy
Date/Time 2010-03-18 17:06:28
Remote IP: 76.247.152.202
Message>>>I am very well my friend, a heat wave
>>>out here in the west, amazing, in the 80's.
80s huh? You may be in for a rare "treat" come July/August!
(heavy sarcasm intended)
It's in the lower 60's here and sunny. Quite nice.
But considering I'm in MI, that puts it at "quite warm"
for this time of year as well. This is more like the weather of
late May/early June as opposed to mid-March.
>>>The heart of my question was if one
>>>believes the Ling is of a prenatal condition,
>>>as a skeleton of your current self, what influence
>>>does that have to a person now, to view life in this way?
>>>If one thinks parts of their current life
>>>will scatter and dissolve into the cosmos and
>>>mix with other things if they do not do some
>>>practice to integrate and hold their current condition
>>>in the afterlife how might that influence a person now?
How it influences the person depends on the person.
For some people, it could create a lot of fear--but then again,
this isn't much different from the pattern of people in general . . .
going to church weekly and doing following ridiculous rules
because they are trying to get into heaven or trying to avoid
hell/oblivion/God's wrath/what have you.
For others, maybe an atheistic type, it might provide hope
that they don't need to end up in oblivion.
For others still, it might provide a strong source of motivation
to get the person to start seriously doing spiritual work.
It could influence the person in many different ways, again
depending on the person.
But if the outlined picture is TRUE, then any such effect is
irrelevant. The truth "ain't" always pretty in life. Simply
choosing to discard things that cause uncomfortability doesn't
make them go away. It's like the kid who upon seeing his mother
prepare to tell him to do a chore and before she can do so,
he covers his eyes and says "Naa naa na naa naa, I can't hear you."
Guess what, the kid is still going to have to do the chore. The
only difference is the kid gets to live in Candy Land until
the hammer of the law comes down. You know what I mean?
>>>Putting aside method or technique, in my experience Chan (Zen)
>>>is about experiencing life from a different view than thoughts,
>>>take away our thoughts for a second or moment we still exist,
>>>but how do we see, smell, taste, view? This seemingly simple
>>>experience that is always with us, always available to us,
>>>inseparable from us appears to be quite difficult to be our
>>>everyday consciousness, but when we become aware of this
>>>aspect of our life we are freed from the "belief" we are
>>>fundamentally our thoughts or our emotions, they come and go
>>>and we know it and dont make them out to be more than they are.
>>>This "before thinking" aspect of ourselves does not contain
>>>prenatal or postnatal, it frees us from this thinking and
>>>allows is to experience and know Heaven/Earth are one here
>>>and now. It has always been my believe alchemy can lead to
>>>this and Chan is inside the Alchemy. Do you follow me?????
Yes I do.
I just think it is an incomplete picture.
Before thoughts, before emotions, there is a subtle awareness
and living aspect of us that is core immortal and does not depend on
thoughts and emotions for its existence--nor are such things
necessary. But that doesn't mean we have to throw the baby
out with the bathwater; it doesn't mean we can't have our
cake and eat it too. A small toddler doesn't have complex
emotional patterns and long histories of experience; a small
toddler doesn't have a lot of intellectual thought, knowledge,
or baggage; a small toddler lives in the moment and is carefree,
joyful and not concerned with the future. I enjoyed that
part of my life, but I'm not interested in being that way again!
I LIKE the knowledge I've acquired; I LIKE the traumas I had
in my life--they were enriching and give me greater depth and
perception; I LIKE the memories I've had in my life. I LIKE
these things, and would like to keep them around. I don't use
them to define me, but that doesn't mean I think they are useless
either.
SEE HERE'S THE THING:
Zen argument argues you are already immortal, you just need
to recognize your essential nature and how it is completely
independent of the "fluff" we falsely identify as ourselves.
Alchemical Daoist argument (c.f. M. Winn) argues you are NOT,
and you need to integrate sufficiently through practices to
maintain your current condition lest you fizzle away at death.
MY POINT:
Why is it an EITHER/OR? Why can't it be BOTH?
(Or am I the only one who has considered this :P )
My picture is that HALF of you is immortal and lives on;
it's the other HALF--the XIN--that does not.
Under this picture, regardless of what happens, the
self-aware "child-like" part of you continues on, so there's
no need for concern. If you manage to sufficiently
integrate to bring the XIN along as well, then KUDOS--even
better!! You win either way.
Why do I feel this is the correct picture? Ans: Because
ultimately it is the model that "feels right" to me.
To me, just alchemy alone or Zen alone each feels like
it is missing something. Together they feel complete.
To me, this is a strong support that my 50-50% picture is correct.
As an added bonus to adopting this picture:
If I'm right, I win.
If you are right, I STILL win.
If only the Alchemical Daoist approach is right, I EVEN STILL win.
Seems to me to be a better approach than
putting all your eggs in one basket, and picking a side ^_^
Don't you think? ;)
Grinning ear-to-ear, and hoping you can take my jabs in stride :)
Steven
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