Some Feedback on Your Paper: Daoist Qi Science vs. West's Science of Consciousness




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Some Feedback on Your Paper: Daoist Qi Science vs. West's Science of Consciousness

From: Steven
Subject: Philosophy
Date/Time 2009-10-25 01:07:28
Remote IP: 76.252.64.69

Message

>>>note: This is a paper I'm presenting Nov. 5-7, 2009
>>>at the International Daoism Conference in Beijing,
>>>meeting for the first time in the Great Hall of the
>>>People on Tianamen Square. that's significant that
>>>the communists are allowing that, it implies a certain
>>>recognition of the revival of Chinese nationalism
>>>being extended to its indigenous religion.

That's pretty surprising, as qigong empowers people--
something a controlling government wants to avoid,
in my opinion.

Now for comments on the paper itself . . .
Many are just musings that came to mind while reading,
and are not necessarily criticisms as such, but
at any rate, away we go:

>>>Qigong includes Daoist martial arts, medical and spiritual qigong.
>>>Neidan, inner alchemy, covers any method accelerating
>>>transformation of yin, yang, and yuan qi in order to
>>>crystallize a person’s highest essence.

I think there's some nontrivial overlap between some
forms of spiritual qigong and neidan. Or by neidan
do you mean only the non-body-movement alchemical meditations?

>>>Racial discrimination, language barriers, cultural irrelevance
>>>of Daoist-Buddhist-Confucian dynamics, disinterest in religious
>>>uniforms, statues or doing complex rituals to invoke
>>>Chinese deities, and secretive nature of Daoist esotericism
>>>are reasons why few Westerners have joined the major
>>>temple sects of Complete Perfection (Quanzhen) or
>>>Celestial Master (Zhengyi) Daoism.

I would say this is also due to the breadth of Daoism.
Alchemical Daoism (as in the Healing Tao) is as different
from Religious/Temple Daoism, as being a Quaker is from
being a Roman Catholic (in the Judeo-Christian faiths).
So, in other words, it is a difference of sects (as opposed to sex).
As for lack of interest, if someone really craves
temple rituals, they can always become Buddhist, which is
far more widespread in the US--no need to seek temple Daoism.
But this is precisely why most come to the Healing Tao:
people want real practices to empower themselves, NOT a bunch
of dogmatic rituals to follow (which IS the nonsense
that people are trying to escape(!) coming
from their upbringing of weekly trips to church).

>>>Western Science of Consciousness
>>>MRI tests proved meditation can change
>>>physical brain structure (Davidson, 2004).

All this testing seems ridiculous to me.

It's been demonstrated by modern medical science that a
person's brain biochemistry affects emotional state
(science of anti-depressants) and conversely,
emotional state affects brain biochemistry.
Charge anyone with stage-fright the task of delivering
a speech in front of a crowd, and watch the physiological
response :)

With these two things linked, intention affects physiology.
The body-mind is linked with consciousness.
Where is there room for debate?

>>>It makes “xuan xue”, or paranormal ability,
>>>into a skill that can be systematically cultivated.

This is the fundamental problem. Without a period of
self-cultivation, such skills are not normally had.
Thus initiates may not see immediate results, as compared
to the results that popping an anti-depressant
or an aspirin achieves.

In other words, it is dismissed as rubbish before the
skill is achieved, unfortunately. Unless the initiate
is open-minded . . .

>>>I am convinced…time does not exist. [some clipped]
>>>Carlo Rovelli, Physicist. Quantum Gravity (2004)
>>>A Daoist would agree, but

I'm a Daoist and disagree with Carlo.

Time IS change. Change IS time. The two are inseparable.
Nothing is free of change (and therefore time) because
everything is subject to the Tao. Time may flow and
behave differently in higher dimensions, but it still exists.

>>>But it does not remove them from designing
>>>both the experiment and the instrument, from their
>>>“soft” interpretation of the hard data, or from
>>>their personal energy field affecting the hard
>>>data itself.. It’s the classic “observer is never
>>>separate from the observed”.

Excellent analysis.

>>>Other research suggests Asians are right brain dominant,
>>>and Westerners are left brain dominant (Tsunoda).,
>>>due to language difference of written conceptual-alphabetic
>>>symbols vs. pictographic writing (Shlain, 1998),

Side note: My brain-halves switched dominance. I used
to be left-brain dominant, but according to left-brain/right-brain
tests, I'm currently right-brain dominant. Go figure.

>>>Qigong can suddenly release feelings in Chinese
>>>that are commonly suppressed in order to present
>>>a harmonious “face” to family and society. In the West
>>>it is expected that one express those individual feelings,
>>>so for them qigong enhances the flow of feeling. For a
>>>Chinese, the feelings could be culturally disruptive.

I wonder how this will "go over" if you say this in China. ;)

>>>Conversely if you teach someone the alchemical
>>>secrets of Heaven, and they use it to cause harm,
>>>you are responsible.

Regardless of what teachings a person gives out,
if someone is taught correctly, and then that person
misuses/corrupts those teachings for ill-will, then
it's the perpetrator's fault. No one can be
responsible for the actions of others. A person
can drive themselves crazy trying to see into the
hearts and minds of students and to try to discern
their motives. Ultimately everyone has to be
responsible for their own actions.

>>>Another curious overlap is between qigong and
>>>the most fundamental shape in physics - the torus, or donut,
>>>or figure-8 infinity symbol on its side.
>>>In physics it describes many things, from the
>>>design of red blood cells to the shape of plasma fields,
>>>galaxies, and black holes (www.spaceandmotion.com).
>>>The torus is also a very common shape articulated in
>>>qigong, in which spiraling arms circulate qi in and
>>>out of the body’s core trunk (= hole of the donut).
>>>Neidan often create a torus-like flow of qi once the
>>>crown (bai hui) and perineum (hui yin) are energetically
>>>opened and qi flows in the chong mai (core channel).

I'm a mathematician, so let's be clear here.

Do you mean torus, as in a 3-D thickened circle?
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Torus.png

Or do you mean DOUBLE-torus, as in a 3-D thickened figure-8?
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Double_torus_illustration.png

A torus is a ring with one hole in the center.
A double-torus has two holes, crossing in the center.

See for torus:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torus

See for double-torus:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_torus

>>>The written character for qi is a grain of rice
>>>with vapor rising from it.

That's interesting.
I never knew that before.

>>>Physicists spent decades focusing their imagination
>>>on finding subatomic particles, and they got their
>>>need satisfied when the particles finally appeared
>>>for a nano-second.

Yeah, that's pretty suspicious now that you mention it.

>>>Conclusion

In spite of any comments I made above, I thought
your article was extremely well-written and
fascinating.

Good job.

Steven
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