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projections; time extent; etc.From: Steven
Subject: Philosophy
Date/Time 2009-10-12 19:16:52
Remote IP: 35.8.158.17
Message>>>By using your own mental constructs (*logic*),
>>>you are applying them to me, you have created
>>>your own limits. ("if point A is correct,
>>>then point B must be wrong"). This is ony if we
>>>live in a universe delineated by the rules
>>>of logic, but it seems that we live in a
>>>reality that contains limitless possibilities,
>>>and simultaneous truths depending on the person
>>>that is expressing them...what you believe for
>>>yourself is true (FOR YOU).
If the universe is illogical, then there is no reason
to think about anything, including this discussion!!!
Moreover, if you can not use logic, you can not have a
legitimate argument!!! I may as well have a debate
with a fundamentalist Christian who can't escape their
circular logic wheel.
I really hope you're not being serious, and you are
just being silly for some humor value, because if
not, there's nothing more to say.
Oh boy. Now I see why bagua doesn't like to
get into debates with you. You're very frustrating :)
I suppose *I* continue on because I'm stubborn and
because I know you personally, LOL. Plus
I suppose it is good training in patience, which we
can all use, LOL. :)
>>>In order to interface with the material plane,
>>>the ling has to also interface with linear time
>>>[rest omitted]
I never said anything about ling. Those are your words,
not mine. I said in the last post that I wasn't going
to go through and edit every misinterpretation you made,
because I was growing tired of the editing. ;)
OK, that was a little obnoxious of me. Sorry. ;)
But the point is, is that if you interpreted that
I rubber-stamped with approval your choice of using
the term "ling", then you are wrong. I mentioned a
couple of times that we were speaking of different
concepts.
I omitted the rest of the paragraph because it was
an extrapolation on a faulty concept. In particular,
more about "ever-present" is discussed below.
>>>Sudoku analogy - the people playing it don't
>>>YET know the answer because they are functioning
>>>in linear time, and it is the process that its important.
I rest my case.
The lower self does NOT know.
That's why things appear to be free will to it.
It's only when looked at from the outside--higher self perspective,
that you see a script in place.
>>>You have been saying for a while that the "lower self"
>>>is a projection of the "higher self" (both being equal
>>>in value), and I agree with that,
You said "both being equal in value". I disagree.
A projection is not equal to what is being projected.
If I project a cube onto a flat surface, I get a square.
If I project my hand onto a wall, I get a shadow.
When you project onto a plane, you get something
"less complicated" having its own properties.
In the same way, the lower self is the projection of the
higher self onto the physical plane (maintained by linear time).
>>>but your explanation
>>>of what your concept of the higher self is has been
>>>somewhat vague.
Because it is beyond our physical dimension and difficult
for our brains to comprehend, akin to trying to
understand fully what a four-dimensional cube looks like,
or trying to understand what the Tao is--for that matter.
It's something you can only get a better understanding of
*through time* spent in meditation. This is why that much
of my description has been through analogy and metaphor, as
simple words are insufficient to describe it fully.
Moreover, it is an ongoing process of discovery as well.
I, myself, am still getting a deeper and richer understanding
as time goes on through my own work, and expect it will
be a lifetime of discovery. I share what I understand.
If that is not sufficient for you, TOUGH. :P
>>>Your last paragraph presents the difficulty in your
>>>explanation - if the "higher self" (collective self
>>>- from my understanding) is ever-present and already
>>>knows the outcome of all events, then what is the
>>>point of having the human physical extensions go
>>>through their lives to experience the physical
>>>plane if the "higher self" already knows
>>>what will happen???
I never said that the "higher self" is ever-present
in all times. This is a misinterpretation of "having
some access". It doesn't have infinite extent
into the past and future. Such a state would be a
state completely independent of time, and therefore
change, and therefore the Tao itself--which is impossible.
No, the "higher self" is not ever-present.
It is subject to time like everything else is, as
everything is subject to the Tao. It is just not
in lock-sync with our linear time.
If you draw a "dot" representing the lower self
on a linear timeline, then then the higher self
is more like a filled-in oval centered on the dot.
It has some extent into our past and some extent
into our future, but that extent is limited.
It is not infinite in extent.
The higher self knows the physical information it
desires, and the lower self follows the script
to ensure the transmission of the data back.
Draw the dot on a piece of paper and the oval
next to it. The center of the oval transmits
the script horizontally to the dot which acts it
out and a future dot near the top of the oval
transmits it back in the same "now" for the
higher self.
Hopefully you can understand the picture which
I've written out in words . . .
You know. Talk does not cook the rice.
Why don't you just meditate on this stuff for
a good long while? We've been discussing this
for a *really* long time now, and I'm not sure
you're any closer to following me than when
we started. Besides you seem to have a
different viewpoint you seem pretty solid on,
so why not just go and believe that. It doesn't
bother me any, that you believe something different.
If you're happy with your current views, kudos. :)
S
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