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re: clarification (discussion from below)From: Steven
Subject: Philosophy
Date/Time 2009-10-09 20:44:43
Remote IP: 76.251.213.191
Messageposting this here, as I don't want to contribute
to posts scrolling even further to the right in
the discussion below . . .
>>>clarification
>>>From: singing ocean
>>>Subject: Philosophy
>>>Date/Time 2009-10-08 00:36:10
>>>Remote IP: 207.6.205.203
>>>Message
>>>The point is not that we are
>>>"on an island isolated from influence",
>>>but that we must choose between free will
>>>and submitting to absolute authority.
"choose between free will and submitting to
absolute authority" ?? WRONG. This is a
false dichotomy. You're thinking that you
only have options A and B, and since B is
not right, you must have option A. But
guess what, you missed option C.
The point you are missing is that the
"person" that is generating the script
that you are following, which *appears*
to be complete free will from the lower
self perspective, is YOU. This isn't
submission to an absolute authority
in the sense of an external agent like
the statement "absolute authority" implies.
You are submitting to "YOU", a higher version
of you that is guiding the lower version of you.
An analogy:
Suppose you have a cocaine addiction. The
"smarter" version of you realizes that you need
to get clean and convinces the "reactional you"
to checking into a rehab center. Then, several
hours after checking in you start going through
withdrawal and start craving cocaine like
nobody's business. The "reactional you" wants nothing
more than to leave--so that you can go get some cocaine
and get high. But you can't. You are following
a script set in place by the "more intelligent"
you. You are "forced" to go through the withdrawal
and get clean by the treatment center "whether you
want to or not". The "smarter version of you" planned
this experience for your best interest, and didn't
really care/understand just how damn difficult
and hard the experience would be. It just knew it
would be good for you, and that you would come out OK.
This is basically what is going on regarding life.
>>>The info mainly came up in MW's alchemy lectures,
>>>and through the Atlantean source.
You know, I've taken a lot of his courses also.
I don't know that anything he has said, outright
contradicts my viewpoint. In other words, it's
a viewpoint entirely consistent with things he has
said. I think it is possible to have *many* different
points of view and not be in disagreement with MW,
and I'm betting that's something he'd agree with :)
>>>The point in being here is to fill in a
>>>particular gap in the whole's experience
>>>that expresses itself through us as a yearning...
>>>this process is complicated because of all the issues
>>>that arise in the material plane,
I completely agree.
>>>and is not guaranteed to be completed which
>>>would be the case if everything was scripted for us.
This is an extrapolation and speculation I don't agree with.
Especially when the script is created by "YOU" to begin with,
as in my analogy. It is a form of free will, just not the
one you are thinking of. This is different than a script
by an outside entity separate from you.
>>>The idea that "material things ultimately don't matter"
>>>is better understood . . . [rest omitted; continued below]
I never said that material things don't matter.
They matter a good deal.
You are making the mistake of misunderstanding my treadmill
analogy that I mentioned earlier. Just because the
treadmill is "scripting your action", does not mean that
it is waste of time in getting on the thing. The
PROCESS of doing it, is the important thing.
>>>in the sense that once we leave the
>>>material plane, we continue on energetically, but the catch
>>>is that whatever we cultivate in the material is what we take
>>>with us in the energetic.
I don't believe that I said otherwise.
>>>"In certain esoteric schools this is known
>>>as the principle of "Ring Pass Not": once consciousness
>>>has been created within a certain form, it has the right
>>>to continue existing. You've passed from the core inner
>>>ring of the Primordial into the outer ring of manifestation.
>>>The Whole cannot take away the right of that individual
>>>to continue existing and re-birthing itself
>>>if so designed." - Michael Winn
I don't believe I said anything about a higher being trying
to deny the existence of our being, nor did I say anything
about the Whole taking away rights of any kind.
Why not let your arguments stand on their own merits,
rather than misapplying tangential quotes by MW ? :)
I'm still waiting on your answer to my question . . . :)
Smiles to you,
Steven
- re: clarification (discussion from below): (563) Steven (1678) - (Training Log) - 2009-10-09 8:44 pm
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