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My last response for a while on this topicFrom: Steven
Subject: Philosophy
Date/Time 2009-10-05 14:55:27
Remote IP: 76.251.213.191
Message@Rainbowbear
>>>Desire, goals, ..... we think we have choice. Think back.
>>>What really could you have done different considering your emotional state,
>>>physical state and state of what was surrounding you.
>>>Do you think you really had a choice.
I couldn't have said it better myself.
Right on the money.
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@singing ocean
LOL, at your video. Hilarious.
OK, because of your "big question", I'll respond, but no more :)
>>>The big question is this:
>>>What is the "higher self" in your view?
>>>Is it personal or collective?
>>>Is it an extension of the five shen, manifesting their pure virtue qualities,
>>>but still in a personal configuration? Is it an unconscious part of ourselves
>>>that exists in formless dimensions but is unable to directly communicate
>>>with the personal self? I guess that would be the Ling, or the soul,
>>>that still maintains a personal aspect but functions in the formless.
>>>Or is it something else you are referring to?
To be honest, the complete answer to that is still in the process of
discovery for me. It reveals parts of its nature to me when I
do "empty-mind" meditation, a yin practice I do designed to
counterbalance the Alchemical meditations with some downtime
to let the transformational stuff digest. In such meditations, when
going in deeply, it reveals parts of its nature when the mind is
turned off. The problem, of course, is that to analyze it carefully,
you have to engage the mind--which it hides from. I currently
have a functioning concept, but the details are only crystallizing
slowly a crumb at a time.
So, in any event, I can only answer based on my current understanding.
I would say it would be something akin to the Ling, or more
appropriately, a higher vibration of it. It's has the "your true self",
"the core of who you are", etc. qualities that bagua likes to refer to.
The five shen assemble around the core axis here in the lower self, but
it's not clear to me yet to what extent they extend up to the higher self.
My feeling is that they do not, but that instead there is some kind of
"unified shen presence" embuing the higher self with a kind of
"quasi-higher-vibrational personality". It has a softer, *much* more subdued
quality; it doesn't necessarily have the same feeling as that generated
by the five shen here in the lower self, but it is distinctly familiar nonetheless.
"Oversoul" would be another term that is closely connected, but I'm
not certain yet how accurate that is either.
IN GENERAL, I don't like picking "terms", as people have different definitions
for these things, depending on what their scholarly interpretation is--
and these definitions may not match the qualities that I'm observing,
so I'd rather just call it the "larger self" for the time being.
>>>My view is that you are kind of missing the whole point.
Ummm, OK, but I'd say *you* were the one missing the point.
I know exactly where you are coming from, and thought the same
thing at one point. I just happen to completely disagree with it.
A lot of it comes down to matter of opinion, and that's why I
feel the discussion has become repetitive--a case of "Blue is
the best color." "No, red is." "No, blue is.", etc.
I sort of feel that I made my stance clear, and feel that if
someone resonates with my opinion that's fine; if not, that's
fine as well.
You have to realize that much of what you are arguing is
purely *your* opinion also. For instance, you say:
>>>Once we enter into the physical plane, we have free will
>>>and cannot be interfered with by the larger collective self.
Where is that written?
That's pure supposition and nice fairy tale to believe
that we are somehow on an island isolated from influence.
As I said before, I believe that the free will we *think* we have is
nothing more than the already designed script by the larger
self conceived for the best interests of both. That does not
imply, as in that Buddhist quote you provided, that the
script means that therefore desire, thought, and action are
meaningless--the PROCESS of following the script *is* the point.
It's like going to a gym, seeing people on treadmills and saying
to yourself, "I see that they are going nowhere, and besides
the machine is the one in control, so why participate?"
In this analogy, you are failing to see that the
participation IS the purpose.
What difference does it make, "who" is ultimately making the
script? If it's a good script, it doesn't matter. And guess
what, thinking globally in terms of the evolution of your soul,
it is ALWAYS a good script. The details only seem significant
to the lower self, and are necessary for its growth. Speeding
the script along, especially during rough patches, is really
the only extra option . . .
OK, and now I see I got suckered into arguing my viewpoint
one more time!! :)
So rather than just volley back and forth with "No, red is the
best" "No blue is.", etc. I'll stop here, as I don't
know that I have anything additional to add on to what
I've already said, and I don't want to be a parrot, because
that's not adding any value.
In the meantime, why don't you think about the question
that I asked you which you seem reluctant to face? See below.
Smiles to you,
Steven
-------------------------------------
[Posted previously in "on being directed" response by Steven]
Why does it bother you so much that the lower self doesn't
get the freedom to pick its own path?
It's not like the lower self gets *no* freedom. The lower self
can choose to complete the requests sooner by doing
alchemy and/or spiritual techniques to accelerate to the
next stage.
Besides, the larger self that is making the choices IS "you",
you just don't realize it. This is the "eternal you" that
bagua hopes people will be able to identify with, so that
they can know "who they really are".
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