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Re: falun gong questionFrom: FacelessMage
Subject: General
Date/Time 2008-06-08 13:49:15
Remote IP: 68.33.209.160
MessageFor this post that i made, i suggest that anyone who reads it go to the falundafa.org website and get your own understanding of the practice. Back when i made that post i really wasn't in a good mood and just wrote whatever i felt.
I don't want to say bad things about anyone's cultivation ways so don't regard what i said about Falun Dafa in that post as being true. Get your own understanding of Falun Dafa from the practice it's FREE on the website www.falundafa.org
Here's that post i was talking about :
Well Miso
i don't know what to tell you as that is something you have to decide for yourself.
i used to practice Falun Dafa for about 2 years - i haven't come to the conclusion that i've turned away from it i only returned to Taoism because some of the things mr li hongzhi said make absolutely no sense to me and i can't see myself following something that doesn't make any sense to me.
I'm absolutely not trying to say anything bad about falun gong but this is the truth i observed based on my experience of practicing falun gong and that truth is still disturbing me and made me unable to get a good night's sleep for weeks . When i did the exercises to the great consummation way of dafa, i fell an extremely tremendous amount of heat come onto my body and i also felt the falun rotating when i did the falun standing stance.
The first exercise i did in falun dafa was the falun heavenly circuit and lo and behold - something really weird happened - i had the same feeling around my neck that i had when i did the taoist fusion 3 practice of opening the thrusting and belt channels- it felt like some kind of invisible, magnetic force with different layers- that's the best way i can describe it .
since i felt something i knew that it must have been real - but this later lead to my inevitable, perhaps temporary return to taoism ( unless i can prove taoism wrong )
what forced me to return to and analyze taoism was some of the things in the book zhuan falun and falun gong supposedly written by falun gong's founder mr li hongzhi.
allow me to explain.
These aren't mr li's actual words ( don't have time now to go into the book to find them )
Fact (1) mr li said - do good things and you gain virtue or "de" and do bad things you gain karma or "yeli"
Fact (2) mr li said the goal of cultivation is to attain the dao and reach spiritual perfection
Fact (3) mr li said people fell off from a divine state and when they drop to this dimension of delusion they were supposed to be destroyed if looked at in terms of abilities OR from the stand point of the great enlightened beings ( the gods that didn't fall off )
Fact (4) mr li said, to succeed in cultivation one has to follow no second discipline because it will make a mess of one's gong ( cultivation energy )
When all these facts are examined - it's leads to an inevitable conclusion that to know the truth one has to enlighten on their own.
how do i know this?
simple
for fact (4) which i mentioned earlier
this i what i have observed:
I am not mr li- therefore i do not know his thoughts. i have never known or seen mr li- therefore i do not know anything he did in his life outside the apparent realm of cultivation besides give lectures . Now,if i didn't write the book zhuan falun and do not know the thoughts of mr li - how can i know that zhuan falun isn't a book made up of messages from other cultivation ways ?
for facts (1-3)
in fact (3) the OR implies that the dao has a principle of destroying gods that fell off - if that was not so, what was he referring to? he couldn't possibly be referring to demons in terms of what happens when one aligns with/ maintains alignment with good because demons are by their apparent natrure against goodness,
now with fact (1) and fact (2) if that's true according to what mr li believes, then the tao/buddha law itself in his view must be something that is ONLY GOOD because if it wasn't, there'd be no logic in him telling his followers to not do bad things and to treat negative thoughts as not being ours so that his Fa-Shen ( law bodies ) can eliminate them for us.
now,what's disturbing to me is this:
if the Tao/Buddha law is GOOD, why would it have a principle that GODS must be destroyed if they drop to the realm of humans by doing evil. ?
that does not make any sense in terms of goodness and i'll explain why.
as a hypothetical example, let's assume that I was an ALL GOOD GOD.
if that were so, it would have been impossible for me to do evil to something eles because if i could, i would not be ALL GOOD.
now, free will is a characteristic that allows one to do evil because without free will one cannot act of their own will and therefore cannot do good or evil .
if the tao is perfect accoring to mr li - then it would know that with free will one can do good or do evil and therefore align with good or evil.
but once again hypothetically speaking, if i leave marbles on a floor and someone decided to act like a dam fool and jump on them, fall, break their neck and die- that would be the same as me having done something bad although i did not directly do something to the person who died.
As another example, if John is fighting BOB and i give BOB a gun and he kills John with it, who's responsible for the murder?
in essence there are 2 people responsible for the murder.
first bob is because he killed john out of free will
second, i would be responsible as well although i did not kill john. the reason i'd be responsible is because i made the situation possible for someone with free will to do something evil or in other words to act according to a certain polarity. therefore The true tao doesn't act in relation to polarity and therefore must be neutral in relation to polarity although it may contain polarity.
going back to the tao according to how it is in mr li's views , if it truly was only good it never would have created GODS with free will because it would be responsible for the evil things they did .
Mr li said in a question the someone asked that we exist for the truth of buddha law/tao.- if that's true, TELL ME- if the dao is all good, how could the dao possibly make gods with free will and then punish them with destruction when it gave them the free will to do good or evil ?
if we exist for the truth of buddha law and it's all good according to mr li then buddha law/dao only could have created GOOD Gods with NO FREE WILL, therefore making it impossible for them to fall off and not live up to the essence of the Dao or in other words, exist for its truth.
Mr li himself said that parents themselves will have to suffer for the sins of their children when they do not properly raise and discipline them . Since the dao, according to master li created living environments for all the beings in the universe, isn't it then in falun gong regarded as the origin or the uiniverse?
So doesn't what i said mr li said in the sentence above contradict what mr li has been teaching about the tao ( fact 1-3 ) when the essence of the tao mr li taught when analyzed according to other things mr li taught or according to one's own free thinking logic leads to the inevitable conclusion that it all makes absolutely no sense ?
This is why last week i started re-thinking about taoism and expecially taoist cosmology .
Now Miso, in relation to which cultivation way to follow- I absolutely don't know because i can find flaws in all of them. it's up to you to decide what you want for yourself. What i belive i must do is enlighten on my own Based on things that apply to me ( such as being able to read/not being able to read or being able to use tianmu ( third eye/ not being able to use tianmu ) and do a cultivation way that has phenomena ( such as energy related states/feelings) which conforms to what i've enlightened to because there seems to be no other choice.
it's impossible to know if zhuan falun was written by mr li since i was not him and can't read his mind and because of that it's impossible to know according to the principle mr li taught about following one cultivation way only if zhuan falun isn't a books of mixed ideas from different cultivation ways. i can't disregard what i said because in zhuan falun mr li makes reference to Buddha Shakyamuni's " no ;aw is absolute" and he also made reference to Lao Tzu's words in the tao te ching from chapter 41 in the tao te ching whhich is
"When superior students hear of the Tao
They strive to practice it.
When middling students hear of the Tao
They sometimes keep it and sometimes lose it.
When inferior students hear of the Tao
They have a big laugh."
now, what i really have a hard time beliving is the fact that mr li said that only a buddha can offer salvation to sentient beings since a greater buddha would change the way of things in the world with just one word.
mr li said he has a falun paradise, therefore according to that statement he must be a buddha or a god or something that's not human but lives forever and has divine powers since he said only those at the buddha level have paradises of their own and since he also said his LAW BODIES are an embodiment of his divine powers and wisdom - WE ALL KNOW WHAT DIVINE MEANS.
now, the words buddha means an enlightened person through cultivation, mr li himself said in zhuan falun that cultivation ways of the past didn't allow their disciples to come across the teachings of other schools of cultivation to prevent contaminating their minds with messages from other cultivation ways and therefore making it impossible for them to acttain salvation because of his apparent NO SECOND DISCIPLINE notion.
Now, if mr li was a buddha, he would have boundless wisdom at least conforming to his level since he said one's level determines their wisdom.
so, what i find hard to believe is, how could he make reference to the words of other cultivation ways?
If the NO SECOND DISCIPLINE notion was true, wouldn't a buddha not say things from other cultivation ways in their discipline since there is the potential that some adept whether experienced or unexperienced can read those words and have them memorized unintentionally or intentionally by constantly reading them when they read zhuan falun?
not only does that stuff exist in zhuan falun, it exist in his other lectures as well- i don't remember exactly but i do remember him talking about the phases of matter in the pure daoist opinion in taoist cosmology- things like bagua and tai chi and the wuji and how things come into existence etc .
i hope this helps you Miso on what my view of Falun Gong has become. I have way too much to say so i'll stop here because if i continue - it might get so confusing you may not understand what i'm talking about .
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